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By Brian Fuller We’ve written all lot about the quickening pace of innovation in automotive electronics design. And you’ll recall the centerpiece of the first part of the Drive for Innovation was an all-electric Chevy Volt, which took us around [...]
1 December 2011
GM Chairman Daniel Akerson came out today, amid the controversy and federal investigation into Chevy Volt battery fires, to say the battery may be redesigned.
"…We're just gonna take a timeout if you will in terms of redesigning the battery possibly," Akerson said in an interview with Reuters (see full video interview below).
If you've followed us and the issue, you know the story. The big difference between the Volt and the Nissan Leaf is that the Leaf's lithium ion battery is encased in steel and doesn't require liquid cooling. The Volt's isn't encased in steel and requires liquid cooling, which apparently can cause shorts that kindle fires.
On the road, we've collected more than 125 suggestions from engineers on how to design the next-generation Volt, ranging from the sublime to the, um, not sublime. We want to host an engineering focus group early next year and take additional suggestions, put them all up on a white board and build a smart, coherent suggestion plan for the next Volt and then present that to GM.
For now, let's pose the question more specifically here: Given what you know, how would you redesign the Volt's battery to ensure greater safety?
alez December 2, 2011 at 1:19 pm
"The big difference between the Volt and the Nissan Leaf is that the Leag's lithium ion battery is encased in steel and doesn't require liquid cooling. The Volt's isn't encased in steel and requires liquid cooling, which apparently can cause shorts that kindle fires."
so it looks like thee is one more substantial difference: the Nissan engineers knowing what they are doing and the volt engineers –it looks like that way — do not
Chris December 14, 2011 at 2:06 am
Battery swap is already operational. Renault made it, follow this link :
http://www.renault-ze.com/en-gb/electric-motoring/renault-z.e.-in-detail/electric-cars-charging-renault-z.e.-1967.html
Elmer Fudd December 2, 2011 at 1:37 pm
Any real skunkworks team could develop a viable battery-kill scheme in less than a week… upon impact (same sensors that deploy airbags) flood the battery electrolyte with a "poison" to kill the electrochemical reactions. Duh! The slowpoke arrogance of GM is holding true. Expect a few deaths (collateral losses, so sorry) attributable to battery self-burnout before GM middle-management suckups gets off their collective backsides and allow the engineers to do their jobs.
Larry Wilcox December 2, 2011 at 1:52 pm
A single large battery has the advantage of on 2 connections. Many smaller batteries could be distributed through out the car and certainly reduce the fire and with increased surface area per watt, eliminate the need for a cooling jacket or water-cooling. The problem is not to get too small or too many batteries to increase the connections and harness weight excessively. I would like to suggest an overall change to distribute batteries and even uses 8 individual motors as opposed to one and eliminate the transmission but I haven’t seen a website for GM that allows this.
Mark Isaak December 2, 2011 at 3:55 pm
Go back to the A123 batteries that were in the running in the first place. Less energy density, but a lot safer. The LG batteries are Lithium-Manganese Dioxide. Higher energy density, but can be unstable. The A123 batteries are Lithium-Iron Phosphate. The same chemistry as in pacemaker batteries. Less energy density, but a lot safer. Forget the Tesla batteries. They are Lithium Cobalt. The same chemistry as in laptop batteries. Consume power just sitting there to cool the batteries. Its a wonder there has not been more issues with the Tesla till now.
KevinC December 2, 2011 at 4:09 pm
Design the battery system into a tray that slides out under the back of the car. Design air channels into the heatsunk carrier for passive cooling. Eject the pack in detected emergencies.
The packs could also be swapped at battery service stations in 5 minutes (like people swap propane bottles) instead of the utterly idiotic thought that people will sit at a charging station for 45 minutes.
Obsoleted packs would work their way out of rotation over time. More efficient / lighter packs enter rotation in new vehicles and are swapped for similar packs at the stations. Pack cycles used (condition data) is maintained in the pack controller and swap charges are adjusted accordingly. Or people can never swap and keep their new snazzy pack! Charge at home.
Heavy users are charged more for swaps (ala degrading their pack's life cycle if the pack were not modular) to cover costs of depleted pack replacement in the system. Pack service station locations / inventory identified on GPS.
This really isn't rocket science. Create a specification for the battery tray and stick to it.
Haroon December 2, 2011 at 4:45 pm
I am not a battery expert, but how hard is it to have a sealed encasement with heat sensors and a self-distiguishing system. We live in the world of senors nowadays and there is a tone of technology out there. The idea of ejectable pack as someone suggested is great as long as you are not putting other on the road in danger (Imagin that thing flying out at 70 mph!)
William Ketel December 2, 2011 at 8:38 pm
Some of the suggestions really deserve some abuse, starting with the one to inject a chemical to "Poison" the coolant. Knowing about the chemistry of the coolant, that just can not happen. But if it could, how would the poison circulate? The concept of a quickly removable battery would assure that you had NO battery, at least here in Michigan, where they steal the welded in catalytic converters. How long could you keep an easy to remove $5000 battery? I did like the concept of a battery made up of a bunch of small sections, it does have many advantages, except for being practical or reliable. The actual solution to the battery fires in crashed vehicles is to provide a few battery drain plugs accessible from under the car. While the car is still raised by the tow truck, crawl under and remove as many of the plugs as cam be reached. The slow leak will drain the coolant in a few hours, removing the hazard. Just be sure to keep pets and kids from drinking the spilled coolant, since it is bad for your insides.
jeery dycus December 2, 2011 at 10:16 pm
First I'd redesign the vehicle to be far lighter weght and put the batteries up front where they belong with a 10kw generator in a rear quarter panel. About like the GM UltraLite showcar. If done n medium tech composites it could easily be built for $20k. Fact is it would need a battery pack 40% the size the volt has making air cooling the smart, low cost way.
Next use a lower resistance battery like the A 123 that doesn't generator so much heat and has more punch, Just why does the Volt need such a large engine for battery charging? A 15hp 1 cyl weighing 25lbs would have been fine, weigh and cost less. With the motor in the rear the ICE could be clutched to the e motor for freeway driving.
GM has never done a good battery and should stop trying. Just spec the space and let others bid, garranty. That's what Ford is doing.
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TWK December 5, 2011 at 6:36 pm
I am amazed at the naive responses and personal agendas posted. Only a couple really addressed the issue. Simple understanding says that there is a very lot of stored energy in the battery structure somewhere. Upon being damaged the objective must be to prevent the release of this energy at a high enough rate to injure occupants or bystanders. The problem has existed and still exists in liquid fueled vehicles and the total vehicle design has evolved to do the best possible and still carry enough energy (fuel) to make the vehicle useful. Today they make the tank tough and locate it where it is as protected as it can be in the event of a crash. There are still some fires associated with accidents and in most localities they roll a fire truck first to cover automobile wrecks. Why any higher expectation should be placed on an electric vehicle fails logic and reason. Suggest a three fold design objective: 1- locate the battery in as protected a place as possible (the volt is long and thin and appears kind of fragile). 2- being as the energy in the now common battery is located in small separate packages (cells) make them separate electrically in the event of damage so if any release their energy it will be only a few. Something like a fuse at each cell may not work but it is a starting concept. 3- Add similar current interrupting devices at progressively higher levels to actuate much like an air bag to head off the possible fire from the energy output within the rating of the battery. The legitimate output of a 15 kW battery will surely start a fire under many otherwise insignificant conditions.
Anyone who has looked at the many times published concept of engineering investigation will see it does not involve off the wall unrelated inputs, personal or political agendas, or violations of the well known physical and chemical laws. The term "off the wall may apply to good and useful approaches but only if they are directed at a solution.
I suspect that the whole issue is a little out of context in that there is a higher standard being placed on a battery than is in current place for a fuel tank but good effort in advancing the science of safety is never wrong. It must however, be approached and led by "cooler heads" to assure that the result is really progress and is not obviated by unintended consequences.
RMR December 6, 2011 at 1:15 pm
At a certain impact level, the battery is likely to sustain damage and become dangerous. Rather that protecting the battery with airbags, I would suggest flooding the battery compartment with flame retardant foam to contain the fire danger and possibly the chemical danger.
Miro Kefurt December 6, 2011 at 3:47 pm
BMW engineers on more than one occasion disclosed that "AIR COOLED" battery pack in MINI was a major mistake !
According to them NISSAN is about to find out !
In BMW tests no battery lasted more than 18 months till it lost lot of the "range", LEAF will kill NISSAN in California where they have to replace the batteries for FREE for up to 8 years !
At about $16,000 per battery pack, NISSAN is likely to have loss of $30,000 to $50,000 for each LEAF sold, so no wonder they really promote the 2 years LEASE, but to theri surprise most people are actually BUYING the LEAF !!!
The losses to NISSAN will be in millions.
VOLT at least does not use the full battery capacity and the engine "masks" the range deterioration with time and temperature, but in BMW and LEAF you just can not hide the fact that the vehicle will loose lot of range when 2 years old or when heater or A/C is used.
Raymond J Ramirez December 7, 2011 at 6:43 am
The solution is very easy: change the coolant. If it can cause ythe fire when dry and crystallized, then change its cheicam composition to prreevt shorting the cells. All batteries can cause fires when shorted, due to the huge amount of energy stored in them. Just preventing the "shorting" will prevent the fire.
I recommend the installation of dummy load shunts that can short out the cells as heat but never reach a combustion temperature. The shunts will activate in the case of an impact, and that can be done with a program in the pack controller, a few new wires or conductors, and a set of IGFETs to switch on the shunts. The only purpose ids to dissipate all the battery energy after a impact, which will prevent any fires, but doesn't damage the battery pack so it can be removed and recharged for reuse in another vehicle or for any new purpose.
Please ignore all comments from idiots about Government Motors, and about the use of other technology (Tesla or Nissan). GM did a good job, and those other commenters have no knowledge on what the problem is, or how to fix it.
Tony December 13, 2011 at 11:09 am
Like this idea! Automatic discharge of the battery pack in case of a collision of enough force, or in case of battery pack puncture/damage that warrants discharge of the battery pack. Discharge would have to take some time though.
Elmer Fudd December 13, 2011 at 7:50 pm
When a petrol-powered car crashes, the last thing passengers or emergency workers are concerned about is reuse of all that dangerous liquid fuel. So even considering reuse of a crash-involved battery is ill-advised. Dump/shunt/neutralize the electrolyte, dissipate stored energy in battery, and scrap the whole shebang. Haul it off to the recyclers for salvage and reuse.
Schmitt trigger December 7, 2011 at 10:03 am
Gas powered vehicles have fuel pump cutoffs activated by crash sensors. In a similar manner, the suggestions advanced by some posters that the same crash-sensors could be used to safely release the battery's energy in case of a severe accident. Whether it is in the form of a switcheable load, a chemical stabilizer or a combination of both, has to be determined with the aid of the time-proven engineering tools of failure analysis and testing.
Hindsight is always 20/20, so I could be wrong in my thinking, but I think that probably the battery team did not perform a thorough DFMEA.
Anyways, the engineering community has always learned its lessons from from accidents like this, and applied those lessons towards corrective actions that improve the product….. If this is the case, and I'm confident it is, this accident will prevent future life and material losses.
Don Yates December 13, 2011 at 8:26 am
Smart solid state cooling can do it …. hot spot sensors activates the solid state Peltier Effect and
Seebeck Effect can be used to scavenge the surplus heat. And then, you can also heat the batteries
if the climate is too cold.
Steve Conner December 13, 2011 at 9:17 am
I'd make the battery management protocol an open system, so EVs can easily have their batteries replaced, even by independent mechanics, as the technology improves.
Willy December 13, 2011 at 12:12 pm
I would put in a 12 volt battery and a gasoline engine and forget the electric.
Willy December 13, 2011 at 12:14 pm
Run the car with a gas engine and forget the electric.
Prius Bill December 13, 2011 at 2:01 pm
If liquid cooling the batteries is dangerous and air cooling is not effective enough, how about non-conductive oil cooling?
Bob Bongiorno December 14, 2011 at 11:04 pm
1) A sensor will detect a serious crash. 2) A pump will force a harmless liquid into the battery. 3) A flush-valve opens allowing the battery electrolyte to discharge into a resevoir. 4) If the battery is deemed reuseable after crash restoration, the process is reversed.
Rich Schaum December 15, 2011 at 9:31 am
Make sure all charging stations have an Auto Cut Off sensor to activate just prior to peak voltage capacity. this will eliminate heat buildup in the battery so it will not catch fire or worse. All bateries are to be connected to a BEC (batery eliminator circut) with to shut down power if battery discharges too fast due to possible internal short or aother failure that can cause excessive heat buildup. Add a backup battery and system motor/s for supplying enough power, of short duration to power steering, brakes and emergency lights to safely stop car out of harms way of traffic or other hazards.
These like type systems have been used in RPV airplanes for power systems and by Radio Controled hobbiest for years to safely land their planes.
Robpag January 11, 2012 at 9:57 pm
I would replace the battery with an internal combustion engine. They are a proven technology and can be very energy efficient.
Tom January 13, 2012 at 2:18 pm
The whole idea of an electric car is utterly stupid. I would like to see the engineers develop a much more efficient ICE. For enhancing the starting torque for start-stop driving, you might just consider ultra-capacitors.
Agenda part. I was always a GM owner but when GM failed to control their business and leaned on the taxpayer for the payoff, I vowed to never, ever buy another GM product. Never!
*Required

Bob Noble December 2, 2011 at 1:05 pm
Have Tesla Motors do it. Better yet, just get a Tesla Motors car, then you (a) won't have to worry about the battery and (b) won't have to deal with Government Motors.